February 2021 - Npos_2018 - lists.testbiotech.de

Conference Call 9 February 2021 - Minutes
by Johanna Eckhardt no-patents-seeds.org 09 Feb '21

09 Feb '21

Dear all, please find attached the minutes of todays conference call. Best, Johanna Johanna ECKHARDT Project Coordination Tel. +43 680 21 26 343 <mailto:johanna.eckhardt@no-patents-on-seeds.org> johanna.eckhardt(a)no-patents-on-seeds.org NO PATENTS ON SEEDS! <http://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/> www.no-patents-on-seeds.org <http://www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds> www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds <http://www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed> www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed From: Npos_2018 [mailto:npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de] On Behalf Of Johanna Eckhardt no-patents-seeds.org Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 10:21 AM To: npos_2018(a)testbiotech.de Subject: [Npos_2018] IMPORTANT: Conference Call 9 February 2021 - Agenda Dear all, please find below the draft agenda for our conference call next week. Best, Johanna --- 1. Updates 1.1. Updates from the countries / organisations 2. Next steps / Strategy 2.1. Report 2021 2.2. Meeting with EPO beginning of March 2.3. Public activity for Admin. Council (23 March)? § Produce more sculptures of the screaming vegetables? 3. Other 3.1. Email communication / labels Proposal: Label Content such as Important - Information in regards to the Meeting of Members (date, documents, preparation) - Information in regard to Conference calls (date, agenda, minutes) - Information about a planned press release, taking quotes - Decisions that have to be taken / Feedback needed no label - drafts and edits of press releases and reports - details of planned activities - updates, news on patent issues 3.2. Communication between German and English speaking members § Translation for Meeting of Members? § Coordination between conference calls in English / German 3.3. Next conference call Johanna ECKHARDT Project Coordination Tel. +43 680 21 26 343 <mailto:johanna.eckhardt@no-patents-on-seeds.org> johanna.eckhardt(a)no-patents-on-seeds.org NO PATENTS ON SEEDS! <http://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/> www.no-patents-on-seeds.org <http://www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds> www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds <http://www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed> www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed From: Npos_2018 [mailto:npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de] On Behalf Of Johanna Eckhardt no-patents-seeds.org Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 1:35 PM To: npos_2018(a)testbiotech.de <mailto:npos_2018@testbiotech.de> Subject: [Npos_2018] IMPORTANT: Conference Call 9 February 2021 Dear all, thank you for filling in the doodle. Our next conference call will be on Tuesday, 9 February 2021 from 13.30h to 15.00h CET. Please find the access details below. Best, Johanna --- Topic: Conference call No patents on seeds! Time: Feb 9, 2021 01:30 PM Amsterdam, Berlin, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna Join Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/82629354500?pwd=eFRhejh5VDNvQTlDVkxiZUJRYjJtQT09 Meeting ID: 826 2935 4500 Passcode: 857104 One tap mobile +431206093072,,82629354500#,,,,*857104# Austria +4312535501,,82629354500#,,,,*857104# Austria Dial by your location +43 120 609 3072 Austria +43 12 535 501 Austria +43 12 535 502 Austria +43 670 309 0165 Austria +43 72 011 5988 Austria +32 2 788 0172 Belgium +32 2 788 0173 Belgium +32 1579 5132 Belgium +32 2 290 9360 Belgium +32 2 585 5574 Belgium +32 2 588 4188 Belgium +45 47 37 25 75 Denmark +45 89 88 37 88 Denmark +45 32 70 12 06 Denmark +45 32 71 31 57 Denmark +45 32 72 80 10 Denmark +45 32 72 80 11 Denmark +49 30 5679 5800 Germany +49 69 3807 9883 Germany +49 695 050 2596 Germany +49 69 7104 9922 Germany +31 20 241 0288 Netherlands +31 20 794 0854 Netherlands +31 20 794 6519 Netherlands +31 20 794 6520 Netherlands +31 20 794 7345 Netherlands +351 308 804 188 Portugal +351 308 810 988 Portugal +351 211 202 618 Portugal +41 43 210 71 08 Switzerland +41 44 529 92 72 Switzerland +41 22 591 00 05 Switzerland +41 22 591 01 56 Switzerland +41 31 528 09 88 Switzerland +41 43 210 70 42 Switzerland Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/keu2WrjfA0 Johanna ECKHARDT Project Coordination Tel. +43 680 21 26 343 <mailto:johanna.eckhardt@no-patents-on-seeds.org> johanna.eckhardt(a)no-patents-on-seeds.org NO PATENTS ON SEEDS! <http://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/> www.no-patents-on-seeds.org <http://www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds> www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds <http://www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed> www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed From: Npos_2018 [mailto:npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de] On Behalf Of Johanna Eckhardt no-patents-seeds.org Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 8:50 AM To: npos_2018(a)testbiotech.de <mailto:npos_2018@testbiotech.de> Subject: [Npos_2018] Conference Call February Dear all, please fill in the doodle for our next conference call in February until Sunday, 24 January evening. https://doodle.com/poll/kgr8rfudxcg9n9gt?utm_source=poll <https://doodle.com/poll/kgr8rfudxcg9n9gt?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link> &utm_medium=link Thank you! Best, Johanna Johanna ECKHARDT Project Coordination Tel. +43 680 21 26 343 <mailto:johanna.eckhardt@no-patents-on-seeds.org> johanna.eckhardt(a)no-patents-on-seeds.org NO PATENTS ON SEEDS! <http://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/> www.no-patents-on-seeds.org <http://www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds> www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds <http://www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed> www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed

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! important: meeting with EPO on 3rd March
by Christoph Then 09 Feb '21

09 Feb '21

The EPO says: I am pleased to inform you that the meeting with Mr Ernst, Vice-President Legal/International Affairs and yourself will take place on Wednesday, 3rd March 2021 at 10.00, and that one hour has been foreseen for our discussions. so now I will send them some more informations about them participants. I also will be contacted re the agenda. anybody else wants to join?

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draft new report (pdf)
by Christoph Then 08 Feb '21

08 Feb '21

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first draft of the new report (docx version)
by Christoph Then 08 Feb '21

08 Feb '21

dear all please see attached the first draft of the new report. It uses lots of parts from the previous one. However it follows another logic: The focus now is on the loopholes, while last time we did not know the outcome of G3/19 and therefore had to take a wider approach. more recent figures from overall patent applications and pinto will be added. I especially like figure 3 which repeats what we are saying about the differences between GE and random mutagenesis, and was produced with public money to educate public on advantages of New GE.... I will try to organise a slightly adopted version. I can give a short introduction in the zoom meeting we have today and tomorrow. cheers Christoph

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neuer Brief an Bundesjustizministerin Lambrecht (zur Kenntnis)
by Christoph Then 05 Feb '21

05 Feb '21

this letter was sent today, after discussion with German members of the organisation. it already includes the analysis of the recent documents from EPO as sent - I will also try to include these details into the draft report. please do not circulate the letter at this stage.

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another highly relevant document
by Christoph Then 04 Feb '21

04 Feb '21

Dear all this the follow up to my previous mail. it concerns a document prepared for patent law committee last year (CA/PL 4/20, see attached in German and English). some findings from quick reading: paras 28-32 deal with random mutations. our analysis is mentioned (however, again no difference is made between trait and and any genetic alterations). its is confirmed that patent on random mutations get granted. To me the content of Para 31 was new: It is stated that G3/19 is confirming the need for patents on radiated plants (however radiation is definitely not the method you will use to directly derive to a new trait). This means, we have to take into account that G3/19 adds to the documents with presenting wrong interpretations of G2/07 and G1/08. This makes our standing more complicated. In para 35-37 it seems they agree with us that living cells are not patentable if derived from relevant plants or animals. thus this problem seems to be solved to some extent: To my understanding this document is sufficient to clarify the issue which was confused by the former President. We might take as a success. In Para 38-42 it is announced that staying for 310 patent applications, 10 oppositions and 18 appeals are lifted. Summary: We should continue to explain the difference between traits and other genetic changes (which need crossing and selection). Since this difference was not considered so far, it might still be relevant for future interpretation. A lot of work still to do. We might spend less emphasis on patentability of cells. We have to continue to work on scope of patents (the disclaimer solution is also mentioned in this document, para 26/27 but without need for further discussion). I will continue reading and maybe send a third document. cheers Christoph

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another very important document: New Guidance for examination
by Christoph Then 03 Feb '21

03 Feb '21

Dear all thanks to Johanna we were also made aware that the new examination guidance is online: with track changes: https://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/guidelines/guidelines-preview.… final: https://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/guidelines.html general overview: https://www.epo.org/law-practice/legal-texts/official-journal/2021/01/a6.ht… I attach the relevant chapter on patentability with track changes (I guess no German version is available). it is made clear that rule 28(2) has not be applied to applications filed before July 2017. in this context, also the role of the disclaimer is defined in more detail. !! on page 51 random mutations are considered: an very lousy example for patentable inventions was deleted. Very good. Further clarification was added: A mutant of a plant carrying a heritable exchange in a nucleotide sequence effected by technical means, e.g. UV mutagenesis or CRISPR/Cas *with the proviso that the plant is not exclusively obtained** **by means of an essentially biological process (EBP).* the second part (now added) of the sentence means that even it mutagenesis is applied, the plant still might be derived from essentially biological processes. This could mean that the patent applicant has to show that the claims are in accordance with G2/07 and G1/08 (direct insertion of a trait) and it is not enough to show that mutagenesis was applied. To further discuss this issue I would like to give two examples: in the case of herbicide resistant plants derived from random mutations it might be sufficient to treat them with the herbicide to identify the desired traits (patentable) in case of plants with resistant to downy mildew it might be necessary to perform (after mutatgenesis) further crossing and selection to derive to the desired (quantitative) trait. These examples show how these new guidance might become applied. this would mean a step ahead: So far, each application of mutagenesis was sufficient to overcome rule 28 (2). Now only some plants might escape. But still not all methods for conventional breeding would be excluded. There is another possibility how this additional half sentence might be used (and made worthless): The EPO could decide to simply demand a disclaimer, leaving it completely open what exactly is patentable or excluded. !! on page 52, living cells are excluded if derived from relevant plants or animals - this seems to a success of our work. Summary: Some progress was made. It is hard to say if we have chances to reach better decisions by the Admin Council if we follow our current approach. The alternative would be to say: We now see that based on latest documents, final clarity only can be achieved by a change of law. This also might mean we still could use patents as granted before July 2017 to raise pressure - the debate would no longer just concern rule 28(2). This also might help to move ahead the Admin Council to provide further clarifications. We have to discuss this next week during our phone call. I also will continue to think about and might have improved analysis next week. cheers Christoph

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technical / legal issues some more relevant documents on current decision making of the EPO
by Christoph Then 03 Feb '21

03 Feb '21

Dear all Johanna identified several interesting documents on the website of the EPO which I would like to share. I am just about to read and to try give first short analysis in several steps. The first document (CA/PL 4/17, attached in de and en) is another preparatory document for the decision of the Administrative Council in 2017. It was adopted by patent law Committee in March 2017 (CA/PL 4/17) and then was use by the President to file his document in June (CA/56/17 - this the document we quoted from in our legal analysis). In its paragraphs 6, 73-76 and 82 & 83 it deals with patentability of random mutagenesis. It explains the issue which the was repeated and summarized by the CA/56/17 document. For my understanding paragraphs 82 &83 are problematic because they mix up trait (G2/07 & G2/08) with any genetic alteration. To me it seems (after quick reading) our analysis is correct and this document is some proof that G2/07 and G1/08 are not correctly interpreted. Further in paragraphs 88-91 it deals with patentability of cells. To me it looks like they only wanted to allow patents on processed products (such as meal and sugar) but not on cells for further regeneration. Thus, to me it looks like we are right in stating that document CA/56/17 should become more precise, since it includes patentability of living cells. It is interesting that in Para 101 & 102 they are also discussing about the possibility to define essentially biological processes. I will do further reading and in case send further docs I guess this material is relevant for our report and we should have a proper understanding. Cheers Christoph

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IMPORTANT: Conference Call 9 February 2021 - Agenda
by Johanna Eckhardt no-patents-seeds.org 03 Feb '21

03 Feb '21

Dear all, please find below the draft agenda for our conference call next week. Best, Johanna --- 1. Updates 1.1. Updates from the countries / organisations 2. Next steps / Strategy 2.1. Report 2021 2.2. Meeting with EPO beginning of March 2.3. Public activity for Admin. Council (23 March)? § Produce more sculptures of the screaming vegetables? 3. Other 3.1. Email communication / labels Proposal: Label Content such as Important - Information in regards to the Meeting of Members (date, documents, preparation) - Information in regard to Conference calls (date, agenda, minutes) - Information about a planned press release, taking quotes - Decisions that have to be taken / Feedback needed no label - drafts and edits of press releases and reports - details of planned activities - updates, news on patent issues 3.2. Communication between German and English speaking members § Translation for Meeting of Members? § Coordination between conference calls in English / German 3.3. Next conference call Johanna ECKHARDT Project Coordination Tel. +43 680 21 26 343 <mailto:johanna.eckhardt@no-patents-on-seeds.org> johanna.eckhardt(a)no-patents-on-seeds.org NO PATENTS ON SEEDS! <http://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/> www.no-patents-on-seeds.org <http://www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds> www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds <http://www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed> www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed From: Npos_2018 [mailto:npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de] On Behalf Of Johanna Eckhardt no-patents-seeds.org Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 1:35 PM To: npos_2018(a)testbiotech.de Subject: [Npos_2018] IMPORTANT: Conference Call 9 February 2021 Dear all, thank you for filling in the doodle. Our next conference call will be on Tuesday, 9 February 2021 from 13.30h to 15.00h CET. Please find the access details below. Best, Johanna --- Topic: Conference call No patents on seeds! Time: Feb 9, 2021 01:30 PM Amsterdam, Berlin, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna Join Zoom Meeting https://us02web.zoom.us/j/82629354500?pwd=eFRhejh5VDNvQTlDVkxiZUJRYjJtQT09 Meeting ID: 826 2935 4500 Passcode: 857104 One tap mobile +431206093072,,82629354500#,,,,*857104# Austria +4312535501,,82629354500#,,,,*857104# Austria Dial by your location +43 120 609 3072 Austria +43 12 535 501 Austria +43 12 535 502 Austria +43 670 309 0165 Austria +43 72 011 5988 Austria +32 2 788 0172 Belgium +32 2 788 0173 Belgium +32 1579 5132 Belgium +32 2 290 9360 Belgium +32 2 585 5574 Belgium +32 2 588 4188 Belgium +45 47 37 25 75 Denmark +45 89 88 37 88 Denmark +45 32 70 12 06 Denmark +45 32 71 31 57 Denmark +45 32 72 80 10 Denmark +45 32 72 80 11 Denmark +49 30 5679 5800 Germany +49 69 3807 9883 Germany +49 695 050 2596 Germany +49 69 7104 9922 Germany +31 20 241 0288 Netherlands +31 20 794 0854 Netherlands +31 20 794 6519 Netherlands +31 20 794 6520 Netherlands +31 20 794 7345 Netherlands +351 308 804 188 Portugal +351 308 810 988 Portugal +351 211 202 618 Portugal +41 43 210 71 08 Switzerland +41 44 529 92 72 Switzerland +41 22 591 00 05 Switzerland +41 22 591 01 56 Switzerland +41 31 528 09 88 Switzerland +41 43 210 70 42 Switzerland Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/keu2WrjfA0 Johanna ECKHARDT Project Coordination Tel. +43 680 21 26 343 <mailto:johanna.eckhardt@no-patents-on-seeds.org> johanna.eckhardt(a)no-patents-on-seeds.org NO PATENTS ON SEEDS! <http://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/> www.no-patents-on-seeds.org <http://www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds> www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds <http://www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed> www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed From: Npos_2018 [mailto:npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de] On Behalf Of Johanna Eckhardt no-patents-seeds.org Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 8:50 AM To: npos_2018(a)testbiotech.de <mailto:npos_2018@testbiotech.de> Subject: [Npos_2018] Conference Call February Dear all, please fill in the doodle for our next conference call in February until Sunday, 24 January evening. https://doodle.com/poll/kgr8rfudxcg9n9gt?utm_source=poll <https://doodle.com/poll/kgr8rfudxcg9n9gt?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link> &utm_medium=link Thank you! Best, Johanna Johanna ECKHARDT Project Coordination Tel. +43 680 21 26 343 <mailto:johanna.eckhardt@no-patents-on-seeds.org> johanna.eckhardt(a)no-patents-on-seeds.org NO PATENTS ON SEEDS! <http://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/> www.no-patents-on-seeds.org <http://www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds> www.facebook.com/nopatentsonseeds <http://www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed> www.twitter.com/nopatentsonseed

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important: New date for meeting with EPO (with deadline)
by Christoph Then 02 Feb '21

02 Feb '21

dear all just received an new proposal for a meeting with the Vize President of EPO. Please come back to me till end of the week: *We are now pleased to be able to offer you a choice of dates for our next meeting, these are: 3rd, 4th 5th March, mornings, or 3rd, 5th March afternoons.* Thanks! Christoph

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