dear Nout

thanks a lot for your reply.

I am doing a lot of these text work for publication I always try to check the facts beforehand and circulate the text as much as I can before publishing (so I had another exchange with a gluten free beer yesterday) but I would not send these texts to institutions like CSIRO which might try to prevent us from publishing with unfair methods. This could take too much time and resources without any benefits (but there are also some pro arguments).

I guess, if a big organisation like Oxfam is the sender, the companies will act with much more fairness and diligence. But I understand you would are not interested in taking such a role.

So please advise me: Is it absolutely necessary to contact CSIRO and Carlsberg beforehand? In case, could a bigger organisations please take the lead in these communications (like Swissaid oder Arche Noah)?

thanks for your considerations

Christoph

Am 15.03.22 um 13:30 schrieb Nout van der Vaart:

Dear Christoph,

Thanks for this, the document looks good to me. I'm afraid we can’t be of much help here: unless it's a Dutch company Oxfam Novib can’t directly reach out to these companies without going through complex alignment procedures with other Oxfam affiliates that are managing (domestic) accounts with these companies (in this case our Danish and German counterparts). We would advise therefore that NPOS proceeds by sending a standard letter/email to the companies explaining our concerns.

Best regards, Nout

-----Original Message----- From: Npos_2018 npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de On Behalf Of Christoph Then Sent: Friday, March 11, 2022 9:50 AM To: npos_2018@testbiotech.de Subject: [Npos_2018] updated backgrounder on new patents on beer /question to Oxfam / please come back with comments till mid of next week

Dear all

please see attached the draft for the updated backgrounder on new patent applications on barley and beer.

It now can be used a self-standing text, it is enriched by footnotes and further explanations, thus it is possible to check all the facts.

Please note that I also added a last sentence to the demands of the petition at the end. This sentence already reflects some of our latest findings about patents on beer.

We already received first comments from the free brewers on our draft media release. So I now will work on the final draft version of the PR and also produce a German translation of the backgrounder.

Please advise: For me it seems not to be necessary to approach the companies Carlsberg, CSIRO and Radeberger.

Carlsberg did not react on last messages, CSIRO might try to stop us by unfair methods and Radeberger was approached by the free brewers, but did not show big interest.

However, if we want beforehand to approach these companies nevertheless, I would kindly ask Oxfam to help us with their contacts. I think Oxfam might prevent the companies from giving unreasoned comments.

If we want to approach them, we could use the final draft version of the backgrounder (after a first round of comments).

Thus everybody, please come with comments on the draft backgrounder till mid of next weeks.

currently we plan to go public after the 20 March.

Cheers

Christoph

---

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Dear Nout, dear all

thanks for your reply and your comments.

So looking to the overall feedback, it looks like we (in this case) can send out the documents to media without informing the companies beforehand.

on the role of NPOS: I agree we are an legitimate and important actor in the field, however we have an extremely small team. In a bigger organisation, we would not only have more experts etc, but also more legal expertise in these questions of direct communication with companies. So if a company replies, we should be able to understand their answer in a legal sense and to answer / react accordingly. If we give a company the chance 'to test the waters' they might try to test our ability to deal with abhorrent legal claims. So we should only send out those letters if we know how to deal with potentially controversial answers and reactions.

On the other hand, if a company is approaching us after we have sent out something (and in case they can show that we made factual mistakes), we should still be able to correct  our public communication.

So I am used to a precautionary approach, I have experience how bigger organisations are dealing with these issues (I was working for Greenpeace) and I would be very hesitant to send out any of those letters being aware of our "secretariat". I strongly recommend one of our bigger member organisations to take the lead.

so maybe we can discuss this issue at our next meeting, I don not think that this issue is sorted out yet.

thanks for your comments!

Christoph

Am 16.03.22 um 15:22 schrieb Nout van der Vaart:

Hi Christoph,

I am not sure whether it's necessary to inform them in advance (personally I don't have any experience here), although my understanding is that it is good practice to do so when one aims to change the course of directions of whichever actor you're trying to influence.

In my opinion NPOS itself is a very legitimate actor to push out such communications to companies (an/or governments etc.) itself. NPOS' legitimacy of speaking is supported and backed by the NPOS members on whose behalf the Secretariat is speaking. By having the secretariat sending out messages like the one proposed, the network gets more display and a clearer profile to the outside world, which is also what we aim for. Individual NPOS members could subsequently amplify such message by disseminating it through their own networks. As for Oxfam's role: it's not that we're not interested, I consider a message like the one proposed more legitimate when it comes from the secretariat, as it shows it speaks on behalf of the whole network (and not just Oxfam or whichever individual member). And in this specific case, only if it were a Dutch company we could do additional lobbying.

Hope this helps, Best, Nout

-----Original Message----- From: Npos_2018 npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de On Behalf Of Christoph Then Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 3:07 PM To: npos_2018@testbiotech.de Subject: Re: [Npos_2018] updated backgrounder on new patents on beer /question to Oxfam / please come back with comments till mid of next week

dear Nout

thanks a lot for your reply.

I am doing a lot of these text work for publication I always try to check the facts beforehand and circulate the text as much as I can before publishing (so I had another exchange with a gluten free beer yesterday) but I would not send these texts to institutions like CSIRO which might try to prevent us from publishing with unfair methods. This could take too much time and resources without any benefits (but there are also some pro arguments).

I guess, if a big organisation like Oxfam is the sender, the companies will act with much more fairness and diligence. But I understand you would are not interested in taking such a role.

So please advise me: Is it absolutely necessary to contact CSIRO and Carlsberg beforehand? In case, could a bigger organisations please take the lead in these communications (like Swissaid oder Arche Noah)?

thanks for your considerations

Christoph

Am 15.03.22 um 13:30 schrieb Nout van der Vaart:

...

Dear Christoph,

Thanks for this, the document looks good to me. I'm afraid we can't be of much help here: unless it's a Dutch company Oxfam Novib can't directly reach out to these companies without going through complex alignment procedures with other Oxfam affiliates that are managing (domestic) accounts with these companies (in this case our Danish and German counterparts). We would advise therefore that NPOS proceeds by sending a standard letter/email to the companies explaining our concerns.

Best regards, Nout

-----Original Message----- From: Npos_2018 npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de On Behalf Of Christoph Then Sent: Friday, March 11, 2022 9:50 AM To: npos_2018@testbiotech.de Subject: [Npos_2018] updated backgrounder on new patents on beer /question to Oxfam / please come back with comments till mid of next week

Dear all

please see attached the draft for the updated backgrounder on new patent applications on barley and beer.

It now can be used a self-standing text, it is enriched by footnotes and further explanations, thus it is possible to check all the facts.

Please note that I also added a last sentence to the demands of the petition at the end. This sentence already reflects some of our latest findings about patents on beer.

We already received first comments from the free brewers on our draft media release. So I now will work on the final draft version of the PR and also produce a German translation of the backgrounder.

Please advise: For me it seems not to be necessary to approach the companies Carlsberg, CSIRO and Radeberger.

Carlsberg did not react on last messages, CSIRO might try to stop us by unfair methods and Radeberger was approached by the free brewers, but did not show big interest.

However, if we want beforehand to approach these companies nevertheless, I would kindly ask Oxfam to help us with their contacts. I think Oxfam might prevent the companies from giving unreasoned comments.

If we want to approach them, we could use the final draft version of the backgrounder (after a first round of comments).

Thus everybody, please come with comments on the draft backgrounder till mid of next weeks.

currently we plan to go public after the 20 March.

Cheers

Christoph

---

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Hi all,

sorry for the long silence, two of our team were sick last week and we have a big deadline on seed law at the end of this week.

I agree we should discuss it at a further call. We do not have capacity to take over contacting companies as Arche NOah, but I think it would be worthwhile to develop a process that NPOS can handle in the future. I think the situation has radically changed in the last years, as there are more and more SLAPP lawsuits (even ones where there are no chances of winning). This threatens a small organization even more than additional workload, but I agree it is complicated

For this, since I am gone this week, we would only send a slightly edited NPOS version to interested journalists in Austria, if you decide to go ahead.

Best, Dagmar

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Npos_2018 [mailto:npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de] Im Auftrag von Nout van der Vaart Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. März 2022 14:38 An: Christoph Then info@no-patents-on-seeds.org; npos_2018@testbiotech.de Betreff: Re: [Npos_2018] updated backgrounder on new patents on beer /question to Oxfam / please come back with comments till mid of next week

Hi Christoph,

Thanks - I understand this is a complex issue and capacity is limited. Apologies for a delayed reaction, I've been swamped with other work. Complementing my previous message, we would strongly advise to provide an opportunity to comment to the three companies that NPOS will mention in the media release. I'm also aware that, if we want to publish this Thursday, there will actually be too little time to do this, as asking them to comment will take a couple of days, at least.

So, we would advise NPOS to proceed with one of the following two scenarios: 1) if NPOS secretariat has the capacity to send an email asking the companies to comment, that would be great. In that case publication would need to be postponed. In case the network would receive an 'unfair response' from one of the companies, Oxfam could assist/advise in dealing with this. 2) To proceed with the planned publication this Thursday, but to profile NPOS as the sole/main sender. We would rather not have the Oxfam logo used in the release.

In any case, we'd need to make sure our facts are double checked and 100% correct, and we don't use too harsh/offensive language, as some of my colleagues advised - to not give grounds for being accused of libel or defamation.

Best, Nout

-----Original Message----- From: Npos_2018 npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de On Behalf Of Christoph Then Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2022 4:43 PM To: npos_2018@testbiotech.de Subject: Re: [Npos_2018] updated backgrounder on new patents on beer /question to Oxfam / please come back with comments till mid of next week

Dear Nout, dear all

thanks for your reply and your comments.

So looking to the overall feedback, it looks like we (in this case) can send out the documents to media without informing the companies beforehand.

on the role of NPOS: I agree we are an legitimate and important actor in the field, however we have an extremely small team. In a bigger organisation, we would not only have more experts etc, but also more legal expertise in these questions of direct communication with companies. So if a company replies, we should be able to understand their answer in a legal sense and to answer / react accordingly. If we give a company the chance 'to test the waters' they might try to test our ability to deal with abhorrent legal claims. So we should only send out those letters if we know how to deal with potentially controversial answers and reactions.

On the other hand, if a company is approaching us after we have sent out something (and in case they can show that we made factual mistakes), we should still be able to correct  our public communication.

So I am used to a precautionary approach, I have experience how bigger organisations are dealing with these issues (I was working for Greenpeace) and I would be very hesitant to send out any of those letters being aware of our "secretariat". I strongly recommend one of our bigger member organisations to take the lead.

so maybe we can discuss this issue at our next meeting, I don not think that this issue is sorted out yet.

thanks for your comments!

Christoph

Am 16.03.22 um 15:22 schrieb Nout van der Vaart:

Hi Christoph,

I am not sure whether it's necessary to inform them in advance (personally I don't have any experience here), although my understanding is that it is good practice to do so when one aims to change the course of directions of whichever actor you're trying to influence.

In my opinion NPOS itself is a very legitimate actor to push out such communications to companies (an/or governments etc.) itself. NPOS' legitimacy of speaking is supported and backed by the NPOS members on whose behalf the Secretariat is speaking. By having the secretariat sending out messages like the one proposed, the network gets more display and a clearer profile to the outside world, which is also what we aim for. Individual NPOS members could subsequently amplify such message by disseminating it through their own networks. As for Oxfam's role: it's not that we're not interested, I consider a message like the one proposed more legitimate when it comes from the secretariat, as it shows it speaks on behalf of the whole network (and not just Oxfam or whichever individual member). And in this specific case, only if it were a Dutch company we could do additional lobbying.

Hope this helps, Best, Nout

-----Original Message----- From: Npos_2018 npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de On Behalf Of Christoph Then Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2022 3:07 PM To: npos_2018@testbiotech.de Subject: Re: [Npos_2018] updated backgrounder on new patents on beer /question to Oxfam / please come back with comments till mid of next week

dear Nout

thanks a lot for your reply.

I am doing a lot of these text work for publication I always try to check the facts beforehand and circulate the text as much as I can before publishing (so I had another exchange with a gluten free beer yesterday) but I would not send these texts to institutions like CSIRO which might try to prevent us from publishing with unfair methods. This could take too much time and resources without any benefits (but there are also some pro arguments).

I guess, if a big organisation like Oxfam is the sender, the companies will act with much more fairness and diligence. But I understand you would are not interested in taking such a role.

So please advise me: Is it absolutely necessary to contact CSIRO and Carlsberg beforehand? In case, could a bigger organisations please take the lead in these communications (like Swissaid oder Arche Noah)?

thanks for your considerations

Christoph

Am 15.03.22 um 13:30 schrieb Nout van der Vaart:

...

Dear Christoph,

Thanks for this, the document looks good to me. I'm afraid we can't be of much help here: unless it's a Dutch company Oxfam Novib can't directly reach out to these companies without going through complex alignment procedures with other Oxfam affiliates that are managing (domestic) accounts with these companies (in this case our Danish and German counterparts). We would advise therefore that NPOS proceeds by sending a standard letter/email to the companies explaining our concerns.

Best regards, Nout

-----Original Message----- From: Npos_2018 npos_2018-bounces@testbiotech.de On Behalf Of Christoph Then Sent: Friday, March 11, 2022 9:50 AM To: npos_2018@testbiotech.de Subject: [Npos_2018] updated backgrounder on new patents on beer /question to Oxfam / please come back with comments till mid of next week

Dear all

please see attached the draft for the updated backgrounder on new patent applications on barley and beer.

It now can be used a self-standing text, it is enriched by footnotes and further explanations, thus it is possible to check all the facts.

Please note that I also added a last sentence to the demands of the petition at the end. This sentence already reflects some of our latest findings about patents on beer.

We already received first comments from the free brewers on our draft media release. So I now will work on the final draft version of the PR and also produce a German translation of the backgrounder.

Please advise: For me it seems not to be necessary to approach the companies Carlsberg, CSIRO and Radeberger.

Carlsberg did not react on last messages, CSIRO might try to stop us by unfair methods and Radeberger was approached by the free brewers, but did not show big interest.

However, if we want beforehand to approach these companies nevertheless, I would kindly ask Oxfam to help us with their contacts. I think Oxfam might prevent the companies from giving unreasoned comments.

If we want to approach them, we could use the final draft version of the backgrounder (after a first round of comments).

Thus everybody, please come with comments on the draft backgrounder till mid of next weeks.

currently we plan to go public after the 20 March.

Cheers

Christoph

---

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